Gwyn: Welcome to today's episode on the corner of homelessness and fear, guilt, and shame. My name is Gwyn Griffith and I'm here with Joe Ader. This episode is a little different than our normal format. Rather than discussing a specific topic, today we want to discuss feelings and motivations that impact both those experiencing homelessness and how we respond to homelessness. 

Like always we want to start with a disclaimer. Homelessness is a complex issue. We don't claim to explore every part of this intersection but hope that each conversation brings new clarity to the reality as a whole. Please keep an open, curious mindset as we explore complexity and seek to learn just as we are learning. With that, let's jump into the questions. Hi Joe.

Joe: Hi.

Gwyn: How you doing?

Joe: Doing good. I'm actually excited to talk about this topic because I think it fits for everywhere in the country where you experience homelessness, these emotions that go along with it of fear, guilt, and shame and how that impacts those that are experiencing homelessness as well as how it impacts those that are engaging in homelessness either on a policy side or just on wanting to help others. And so hopefully this is helpful.

Gwyn: So to start off, how did you choose the title of On the Corner of Homelessness and?

Joe: Well really it's symbolic. We saw it as being symbolic because often when you run into folks that are experiencing homelessness they are on a street corner. It's also symbolic in that homelessness intersects with so many other topics and it really is that intersection point where these things come to a head and that we've been exploring all throughout the series so far. So there's that and then this one which has been brought to me more recently is also at corners is where you can turn away.

And that thought has been new to me of because I see that I see more of the intersected of these things coming together and that idea of well actually we could turn the other direction when we come to a corner has got me thinking even more deeply lately. And also in a way as I'm thinking about those who have said, I mean straight out to us like I'm just tired of this issue and so I'm going to focus on something else. And there's this overwhelmed-ness that we have heard particularly in the urban cores on the coast around homelessness where it's just like I can't change it so I'm just going to turn my face away from it.

Gwyn: Yeah and it's hard. I mean when the choice to turn away is the easier choice than to interact with someone, that's the problem.

Joe: Yeah and it is easier. I mean that's the truth. It's easier for us to ignore than it is to engage. Why? That is a great question. I think these topics of fear, guilt and shame definitely influence why we would do that as well as we happen to be in a time period in a society where a great deal of focus is about me and the things that I like or believe and then gathering other stuff around me that I like and believe. The individual not Joe Ader. Yeah the individual not me.

Gwyn: The individual yes. That's a better way to put it.

Joe: Yes a lot of it is focused on the individual and when you're engaging with others it shouldn't be focused on you. So that's a shift counter culturally.

Gwyn: So fear, guilt, shame, why are these so closely tied to homelessness for both the unhoused and the housed?

Joe: You know there's a lot around this and we'll dig into each of these very specifically here but I think they are trigger points for those that are experiencing homelessness. The fear, the guilt and the shame they come up all the time. Every family that we engage with is experiencing these and because our society believes and every person even those that are experiencing homelessness believes that we should be able to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

You should be, this is kind of the American manifest destiny. We take care of it ourselves and so if you are on the bottom rung or if you are needing to use the safety nets of our society then the problem must be you and so we see that with this fear, guilt and shame in particular with those that we serve. On the other level of those that are looking at this topic there is so much fear around homeless, engaging the homeless, what homelessness means for our community and that has been just driven into us over time as well as we see people really struggling on the streets and it causes a fear responsiveness with that and so we'll dig into that a little bit more and then the guilt comes in with our motivation to do something.

What's the motivation behind that as well as shame? Do we do something? Do we not? Did we? If we don't, what does that look like? I'm interested in diving into this more as we get into the more specific questions as we go down here.

Gwyn: What does homelessness feel like to someone who is living it?

Joe: This is a great question. I've engaged with probably thousands of people who are homeless at this point and I have not personally experienced it so I do want to do a disclaimer with that. The things that we consistently hear is I exist here but I'm also invisible. People walk past me, pretend that I'm not there and then on the family side in particular they're called the hidden homeless because you don't see them downtown, you don't see kids on the streets so they're sleeping in cars, their couches are being there, moving around and because of that they're just out of sight and out of mind and some of that is intentional because of that fear guilt and shame and fear that you would lose your children if somebody found out that you were experiencing homelessness with your kids and so what ends up happening is this I'm afraid, I'm afraid what might happen to my family and my kids. I'm afraid of the judgment of others. I feel guilty for being in this spot and I feel shame that I'm here and so on day one when we engage with a family experiencing homelessness or an individual they're coming to the table with those emotions right off the bat.

Gwyn: We had a mom in the shelter a few months ago and she was having a really bad day. She was having a series of bad days and she had a history of running like she would run away from problems, she would run away from one thing to the next and she wanted to run but the one thing that she asked me was if I go with my daughter will they take my daughter away and the fear in her eyes stays with me almost every day when I'm doing my work just because I've also not experienced this but to see her fighting herself to do what she needed to do for her family but then also what her body was telling her she needed to go somewhere it seems like a very scary place to be.

Joe: Yeah it's very real and it is scary and I do want to stay just really clearly here for experiencing homelessness with a child is not grounds for your child to be removed from you in the United States and so that is not the case and there is a lot of fear out there for that so if you're a person that's experiencing homelessness with a child listening to this podcast your child cannot be taken away simply because you are experiencing homelessness so seek resources, seek the help that you need don't be in fear of that for that reason so I think that's a really important thing to just point out.

Gwyn: And we have resources listed on our website as well as if you call our number we can also help point you in the right direction for those resources.

Joe: Yeah.

Gwyn: What emotional narratives do people who are not homeless carry that keep them disengaged?

Joe: So I mean there's a lot to go around this because most of the time that we interact with somebody that is experiencing homelessness as a regular individual it's usually when we're driving our car right and there's somebody with a sign standing on the corner and so within seconds you're making a do I give this person money or not what I would say is there's other ways to engage besides money I do want to state that but in those moments you're making a decision right off the bat right and so what we often will think through is well if I give them money what are they going to do with it also is this just a scam you know is this person here all the time doing the same thing why don't they just get a job. Right there's those feelings or there's the other side of well I feel bad. Yeah I feel like they're in need and I can help and if I don't then I feel bad about, so that's that guilt side that comes into the equation here and what I would say to all of those is all those motivations are wrong. They're the wrong motivations to help somebody.

Gwyn: Tell me more.

Joe: Your motivation should be what is really driving you so what we're looking for what you should be engaging in is not fear but hope how do I bring hope to this situation not I'm afraid of this situation but how do I bring hope to it rather than guilt you're looking for because I've been so blessed. How can I serve or bless somebody else that that graciousness? With that not because I feel guilty but because I have [and] I want to help others and then the shame part the real counter to that is am I content one way or another with who I am in this and am I doing this because of a motivation [or] of I'm ashamed or am I saying I'm a human being full and complete and I'm content with who I am no matter my circumstance yeah it seems to be.

Gwyn: On one hand we have the context so people want to know why people are, where they are, what they did to be homeless or what steps they're taking and on the other hand we have the motivation and when we are motivated just to help one another and to be there for one another. I think that's a much more powerful way to move forward.

Joe: I agree yeah.  I think there's a difference between motivation and emotion, yeah. If you're driven just simply by your emotion, emotions can be manipulated.

Gwyn: Yeah.

Joe: And they're also impacted by I mean random things that I didn't eat yet today and so my emotions are very different than when I do and others can manipulate your emotions.

Gwyn: Yeah.

Joe: But if your motivation is clear and you're focused on what motivates me that's a different thing that does not change with the temperature or the way what you eat today or what even what somebody else does or did your motivation is more of a driving force and so identifying that motivation is really key in this that way you're not expending emotional energy you are gaining kind of emotional freedom in this by [asking] what is my motivation?

Gwyn: How does fear influence public policy and personal response to homelessness? 

Joe: It's massive, we see fear influencing just about every area of public policy yeah so that's not in my backyard nimbyism we see that often. You know this is great anywhere but here as well and so we see that come through with you know even programs that are or helping those that are experiencing homelessness and that do a great job face major push pushbacks. When they're trying to open a new location or trying to move into a neighborhood or a community not because of any real data showing that there's a negative impact just because I feel like that will cause problems.

Gwyn: It's that emotion-based response again correct?

Joe: Yeah.

Gwyn: I think there's also a lack of communication between people where they will put forward their emotion their belief as fact and say things like well everyone agrees with me or I've heard that nobody wants this program to come in and it's often based on their own personal beliefs and not the data and the stats and what our community actually needs.

Joe: Yeah, we actually had a bit of interesting experience when we were working to open up a location in a nearby city. Where there was that question, that pushback, you know why would you have this next to your house? And interestingly the planning director for that city actually lived next to one of our locations and so he was like you know I'm not supposed to speak here but I did want to say I do live next to one of these locations and we have no problems. That was actually great to have that opportunity but most of the time you don't get that and because we're not looking at what is the real data around crime and how is that connected to these issues. It's not the same for every organization for every place too, so that changes but, they're often homelessness and crime. If there's crime going on it's often attributed to the homeless but it's not necessarily. Even you know we did a thing for public television recently and the topic shifted from homelessness to fentanyl. [With] fentanyl addiction and really fentanyl deaths which in our community is the worst in the entire country.

Gwyn: Yeah.

Joe: It's really terrible here we have 10 deaths a week from fentanyl overdose in our community. So it's a major issue but, they were relating it to homelessness. When the vast majority of people that do overdose from fentanyl are housed people.

Gwyn: Yeah.

Joe: But they were basically saying well because of homelessness this and that, that's not the case they're may have correlations but that's not the corresponding factor. You could end all homelessness [and] fentanyl still be an issue in our community. So, I think often because of these intersections that our whole podcast is based on the homeless issue, gets tied with so many other things and then is also portrayed in the media as connected to all these other areas. Which some of them there are connections [have] increased. I'm not going to deny that but, really look at the data to see and that just doesn't happen because we base it off of our fear. Actually one of our largest supporters who owns thousands of apartment units their son died of a fentanyl overdose. They have a foundation built after their son to really try to attack this issue but that's one of the wealthiest families in our community right. So not the families that we serve and so I think it's unfair and unauthentic tying of that issue specifically with homelessness although there are intersections. For those that are experiencing homelessness that do need to be addressed but it's not causality and I think that's the where we get into the really fear-based particularly from the media. Is well it's caused by this rather than that being co-occurring or additional to it or even because of because of the trauma you are experiencing you self-medicate but rarely is it the cause it's usually the result of other upstream issues.

Gwyn: One thing that came up in that panel that you mentioned we were talking or you were talking about our families and the people we serve. Someone on the panel said oh no you serve families, I'm not talking about them and it was interesting to me that they were able to separate people like that and he was talking about the fear that he had of this group. So what is it that people are actually afraid of when they see someone homeless?

Joe: Yeah, that's a great question and a challenging question to answer. I'm just going to give some thoughts on this.

Gwyn: Yeah.

Joe: I'm curious from the audience actually to comment on this and think through this as well like what am I actually afraid of when I see somebody that's homeless. I think there's one part of that is, this what is it going to cost me if I stop and talk to this person maybe provide them some money. What is it going to cost me? How is that really going to affect somebody else? So there's a couple of things there and I don't think I think the fear actually is a motivation of how much is this going to cost me in time. Yeah, so we're so darn busy. Yeah and if we really were to engage with somebody it takes time, I'm not talking just rolling your window down hand in a buck out the window. I'm talking about if you're truly going to engage somebody who's experiencing homelessness like that's a relationship. In relationships take time and I think we're right now just kind of fearful of giving up time to do other things with that some people would say that they would they see and in fear. That it could happen to them. I don't think most people think that way I think most people think it could never happen to me until it happens to them. And we see those stories all the time.

Gwyn: Yeah, all the time yeah.

Joe: Or I thought we were doing fine and then until the car accident until the sickness until the loss of a job

Gwyn: A death in the family something.

Joe: Yep.

Gwyn: What's the statistic where it's like 50 of people can't take on a thousand dollar planned out payment?

Joe: Oh, it's actually 76 percent. 76 percent of the US cannot cover more than a thousand dollars of an unplanned expense within their budget. So right there 76 percent of the country is one car accident, one paycheck, one illness away from financial ruin in our country right now.

Gwyn: We're not an organization to promote fear but one of data and stats and this is something that we deal with as a community and as a country too.

Joe: Yes. I'm not doing [or] saying that to promote fear, I but I think the recognition that it could happen to all of us. [This] is something I do want to say it could happen to any one of us even if we feel like it couldn't.

Gwyn: And that should build our empathy too and see people as not this person put themselves into the situation but that there are multiple different ways that people could end up in our shelters or on a street corner and it's an unknown. And we shouldn't be telling people; we shouldn't be assuming things about people.

Joe: Correct.

Gwyn: I'm thinking about other reasons why people might be afraid. I think personal safety would come in there.

Joe: Yeah. I think recognition of personal safety is, you're right, that there is a fear thing there, particularly on the streets. And if that is you, but you do want to engage in this issue, like engaging with the nonprofits that do serve, because then you can have a more structured environment with some safety protocols around that to engage if that's you.

Gwyn: So how does guilt actually prevent people from helping?

Joe: Yeah, I think guilt has two different sides of its coin. There's one side that I feel guilty, so I'm going to do something. And I mean, just think of that Sarah McLaughlin and the animal shelter commercials, you know. I talk about it all the time. It's using a guilt motivation to make you do something. But the other side of the coin is guilt can also be, it can also cause you to be overwhelmed and avoid. So that I feel guilty, so I'm going to put my head in the sand.

Or when my kids were young and my littlest one had done something wrong, one time he like turned to the corner, closed his eyes, you know. And like, okay, if he couldn't see it, whatever, and I can't even remember what it was now, but he made the mess. But if he couldn't see it, then it didn't exist.

Even though it was like if he closed his eyes, we couldn't see it. And so there's this avoidance factor with guilt, which is the second side of that. Same coin is we feel guilty, so we avoid that because we don't like that feeling. So we shut down or feel powerless, so we focus in a different way.

Gwyn: Do you think that leads to the nimbyism that we're talking about before? Is that connected?

Joe: Ooh. I could see how that could be connected. Absolutely. I'm thinking about communities that,

Gwyn: You know, they want to, they're upset at the homeless population, so they push them to the next town over or the new shelter coming in and they're mad about it or things like that.

Joe: Yeah, we definitely see that with, you know, also with the business community in downtown, you know, making specific legislation just for the downtown of a city so that they don't have to see the homeless or the touristic parts of the city. I know San Antonio has done that and Houston has done that where if there's an area of town that is more tourist focused, then they have different laws and legislation around homelessness and camping and sleeping and sidewalks and everything in those areas, which doesn't solve the problem. It just pushes folks out of those areas.

Gwyn: Literally down the river, like pushing it to the next town over. How can we move from guilt to action?

Joe: Very good. Very good question. This is the theme that comes back to almost all of our podcasts. You have heard this theme of relationship and the way that you change from guilt to action is by taking a simple step, as simple as introducing yourself to somebody that's experiencing homelessness, finding out their name, finding out which organizations are really doing a good job and supporting those organizations. That is how that begins to change. It doesn't change until it impacts you.

If you're going to move beyond guilt as a motivation, then okay, take a step, but take a step towards relationship and that will change your motivation in a big way. The programs to stop people from smoking, for example. I'm going to go back to those. All kinds of different resources and programs to stop people from smoking. Do you know what the biggest factor is to stop females from smoking?

Gwyn: For me, it would be cost, but I don't think that's it. They become pregnant.

Joe: Oh. They become pregnant and now this is going to impact somebody. They know. They know. They love, literally, within them at that time. Even if it's just for that time period, you'll see that's the largest reason why females that do have a smoking addiction would stop through pregnancy. That just points to me the importance of this relational motivation. Until we know somebody, until we have a name and we can really engage, what's our motivation behind that? Then how does that impact our motivation moving forward?

Gwyn: How would you do that in an empathetic and trauma-informed way? I'm picturing a scene where I'm walking down the street. I see someone who is experiencing homelessness and I just shoot out my hand and say, “hi, I'm Gwyn. What's your name?” That doesn't feel right. What's the actual way I can do that?

Joe: Yeah. You know, so one safety, you're going to navigate safety, but I think one is just taking a small step and saying, “hey, how's it going today?” and then introducing yourself. Same way you would with somebody else, hopefully, that you might engage. These are people. We say the homeless, like this big term. And we've talked about this many times, but those are people. In our community, they have names.

They have a mom. They went, most of them went to an elementary school somewhere in this community or nearby. They have lives. They have histories. They have friends. Often, they'll have pets. But there's ways to talk and engage and there's commonalities all across the board. There's situational differences, but not human differences at the same time.

Gwyn: We talked about guilt, but what about shame? So how does shame affect those experiencing homelessness?

Joe: So those that are experiencing homelessness, shame really comes in many different ways. There's a, we want to hide it. And so there's a shame that leads to not getting the help that you need and deserve. So we see this all the time with either people refusing to come and get services because they just feel shameful about having to ask for help. And that really is, I mean, that's part of our culture. We don't ask for help well and accept it well.

Gwyn: Well, we were told to pick ourselves up at the bootstraps.

Joe: We've got to do it ourselves. Correct. And so, and this is all across, this is not just the homeless all across our [world], I struggle with this. I help a lot of people, but asking for help for myself is really challenging. And that stays true in those experiencing homelessness. So just asking for help. And then when you get to actually seeking that help, they're going to ask you a lot of questions about your situation. And we see that where our families that we serve will not tell the truth to a question like, you know, tell me about your substance abuse background or tell me about your mental health because these are personal things you may feel shameful for. So but if they don't tell the truth, then they don't qualify for the resource that they really need. And so you continue the cycle on longer than you need to because of shame preventing you from getting the help and being honest with those that are trying to help.

Gwyn: Is it possible for a community to not feel enough shame? So what I mean by this is we heard a quote, and I'm going to butcher it, but someone came to talk to us and said in their country, “the whole community would come together and lift up someone who was homeless.”

Joe: Yes.

Gwyn: We're experiencing homelessness. And she was saying how her community would be ashamed of what we have going on here.

Joe: Yeah, that was a one of the House of Representatives members from Kenya. And she came with a delegation here and talked to us at the shelter or talked to us that were leaving the shelter at the time. And she did. She said, this would never happen in my village. It would be our shame to allow somebody in our village to experience homelessness.

Gwyn: Very different cultural background and mindset than ours. So interesting question about do we not feel enough shame? Just something to stew on.

Joe: Yeah, I think I am going to dwell on that. Thanks, Gwyn.

Gwyn: Yeah, you're welcome. Let that keep you up at 2 a.m. in the morning. Yep. How do churches or religious communities unintentionally reinforce shame?

Joe: Oh, wow. I'll start with society and then I'll go specifically into churches. But, society as a whole, we've talked about this. Like you should be able to care for yourself. You should be able to care for your own family. And so if you can't, then you're bad. You've done something bad. You may have been sinful, whatever it is that feeds into that. That narrative also exists in the church.

Where you see, well, if you were doing well, then you would be blessed with resources. And if not, then it's because of your sin. And so particularly with what's called the prosperity gospel, which is kind of this. If I do good, then I will get. And if I do bad, then I will get bad things, which has really permeated a lot of cultures, not just in America, but a lot of cultures around the world in their faith based communities, which then plays into, [as] well. If these people are homeless, then there must be something wrong with their soul. Which is not true at all.

So those things are not correlated at all. And so I think the thing to really see here with our congregations and with our religious communities is how are our narratives negatively impacting those around us, but those within us, within those congregations, and then the way that they engage and serve, or the way that they even live their own lives and seek help.

Gwyn: I’ve always had an issue with this hashtag blessed world, right? Because or even simply like sports figures, can you tell them not an athlete? We'll be out in the field.

They'll do a touchdown or a basket and they'll do the kissing of fingers and pointing up to the sky. And I have an issue with it because I'm just like, but there are people who have terrible situations and God isn't with them left. Yeah. And so I have this, you know, and I'm too much information, but I recently went through a deconstruction of faith and trying to figure out what I believe in. So it just gets complicated quickly.

Joe: Let me circle back to this idea. And I'm also a person of faith. So I want to say that I was a missions pastor at a large church in Texas.

And so I would take missions teams to places and you usually go to places that are impoverished. And there's almost this superiority. We're going to take these middle-class folks from the United States to this impoverished place, either in the United States or in other parts of the world. These people would have really good hearts that wanted to go and serve. Often though, they would go with the idea that we're going to go and we're going to save these people. Right. And then they would get there. And then the common thing that I would hear was, well, these people have stronger faith than I do.

And it was a surprise that, that's the case. And that's a very clear indicator that we're relating financial resources with faith when they're not actually you need more faith to survive when you have nothing. And so and often when you have absolutely nothing, then really like prayer is all you've got. And so those folks that are on the edge of survival are often more faithful, more devoted than those that have a lot. Although our churches don't always point that out.

Gwyn: So what would it look like if we replaced fear with compassion, guilt with justice, and shame with dignity?

Joe: Yeah. You know that replacing fear with compassion.

Gwyn: Or understanding maybe? Yeah. I think it's that that that first step, right?

Joe: We already talked about it, but that first step of, okay, I'm going to step beyond the emotion and look at the motivation of my heart. And if my motivation of or my actions, my motivation for being here is to help, then I want to find the best way to do that. And so that's where you go from fear to actually compassion is, okay, I want to help.

I want to do that in the best way. And the best way to do that is to really know the situation, which is then requires you to get to know somebody, which then starts to take away that guilt side of things and drives you to, I don't know if the term is justice, but really drives us to want to make a difference. Where we see things not lining up and where they need to for somebody that we care about. So really, I don't know if it's just justice or a realignment of systems and priorities and things like that.

And then the last part, the shame moving to dignity. Many, many times in this work, I've had people say, you or your staff, they just treated me like family. They treated me like a regular person. And for some of our folks, they hadn't had that in a really long time. And so we say dignity here, but I'm almost just treat everybody the same. So it doesn't matter if it's somebody experiencing homelessness or the mayor, if you're engaging them in different ways, then you're probably motivated differently and don't have the right motivation behind why you're engaging, how you're engaging. And so I just think all those things kind of play together in this.

Gwyn: What about for someone who's experiencing homelessness?

Joe: Hmm. One, if you're experiencing homelessness, that that shame factor seek help, it's okay. We all have problems. We all need help from time to time. And you're not defined by your situation. You're experiencing that situation right now. And maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe next year, that situation is different. So you are not your situation. You're whole and complete, no matter your situation.

So it's okay. Seek that help. We all have the potential to run into this. So that guilt factor, everybody has the potential to end up in a situation where we need to seek this help.

And then the last one, and I'm going in reverse here, but that fear factor is don't allow your fear to prevent you from taking advantage of the resources and help that are available to you and are actually designed for somebody going through the situation that you're going through. You need to just move forward with that. And it's hard. It's incredibly hard. To get over that fear, guilt, and shame. But that's where you actually will start to thrive is when you step beyond those things.

Gwyn: You can see it in the faces of the parents and the guardians in our shelters and in our programs when the fear and the guilt and the shame slip away. And you really do see them start to thrive or see a hope for us for the future. And it stinks because I get so attached to a lot of our families and then they go through our program and they start thriving and they get an apartment or a house and then they leave and then we don't see them anymore. They're still involved in other programs, but it is really beautiful to watch the change.

Joe: Yeah, there's a massive change. And you kind of see a hope start to develop and then a life. They really see this move into I want to help others and this giving back, which is amazing. So like 70% of our staff have experienced homelessness and now they work to help others move beyond that situation. And I just love that aspect of it. So where do we go from here? Where do we go from here?

I think we end where we started from. So identifying your motivation. Why are you listening to this podcast right now? What's the motivation behind that? What's your motivation in thinking about this topic, engaging others? Where does your motivation come from? If you identify that, then moving beyond the fear and the guilt and the shame should happen because you identify your motivation. Find resources that are the right ones. Look at the real data and assess that if you're looking to serve others.

If you're experiencing homelessness, then it's finding the resources that are the right fit for you and accepting the help there. And then as a community, we need to change our fear based approach on most things. Because it's not helpful. It's not helpful for us. It's not helpful for those that are experiencing these situations and really move to what works and what doesn't and identify those as a community and then do what works. Not do what our fear is telling us to do or not to do.

Gwyn: It's hard to make a change if you're hiding in fear. Thank you for joining us for this conversation.

Joe: Thank you.

Gwyn: We're going to have links in the description for resources both in Spokane and Nationally. So if you're looking for ways to get involved or if you're looking for resources to help you out, check there first. If you enjoyed this episode and you want to dive deeper into any of the topics we discussed, if you liked this format or if you have any questions or topics that you want to discuss, please send us an email at podcast.familypromiseofspokane .org. And lastly, a big thank you to you. Thank you for listening, for being willing to learn, and for always staying curious.

Until next time, this has been On the Corner of Homelessness and. If you are joining us from Spokane, Washington, I just want to let you know about an event we have going on. This July, we are challenging our community to run one mile each day in July. So it's 31 miles total in the month. At the end of this, the beginning of August, we're going to host a fun run. We're doing this to raise awareness for the hidden homeless in our area. Raise some funds and have some fun. So if you're interested and available, if you want to raise awareness, if you want to run, stop by our website, learn more and register today. I look forward to having you there.